Big Wave Dave Wipes Out

Big Wave Dave:
You are without question incorrect in your view that: “There is no steam in our atmosphere and even if there was it wouldn’t make any difference to the premise of this post in that being a gas steam has no surface and, therefore, is not able to make a contribution to the conservation of energy in our atmosphere.”

Water in its purely vaporous state is a gas. As a gas, it mixes with other gas molecules and remains in the gaseous state until either its temperature cools below saturation temperature for its pressure, or its pressure exceeds saturation pressure for its temperature.

The pressure of water vapor or cold steam in the gas mixture of the atmosphere is a partial pressure, ‘The partiall pressure of the dry steam is equal to its molecular or volume fraction times the absolute total pressure of the gas mixture containing it.

As a gas, water is much more energetic than as a liquid. The the heat added as latent heat to evaporate a gram of water is more than needed to raise the temperature of over half a kilogram of liquid water, a kilo of dry steam, or two kilos of dry air; over 1 deg. C. In addition to the very large addition of heat content, there is an enormous increase in volume.

This is nothing new,and it has all been thoroughly demonstrated empirically in steam power plants and HVAC applications.

 

Jim McGinn, of Solving Tornadoes:
Dave,

In high school or college did you ever take chemistry?  Did your teacher ever tell you that water can boil at a temperature below its boiling point?  Do you know why they never told you that?  Because it is impossible.  And it’s not kinda impossible, it’s really, really impossible.

Do you know why meteorologists assume that such is possible?  Because without that they can’t go on pretending their models (storm theory models) make sense.  (And also because of just general complacency and laziness.)

As you suggest, vapor does produce a pressure, vapor pressure. But you are confused as to its source.  The source of the energy for vapor pressure is the electrostatic charges between air molecules that keep the clusters/droplets suspended. This is very slight.  The amount of energy involved is NO WHERE NEAR the amount of energy involved with gaseous H2O (steam).

I know for a fact that you are talking out your ass with your claim that, “The partial pressure of the dry steam (I think you mean ‘cold’ steam) is equal to its molecular or volume fraction times the absolute total pressure of the gas mixture containing it.”  Where is your data?  I know exactly where your data is.  IT’S IN YOUR IMAGINATION.

In that you demonstrate another thing that is characteristic of meteorology and other phoney scientific:  when the facts aren’t available, just make it up.  Just pretend.  Just lie.

I suppose I can’t blame you for pretending to understand something you don’t, because that is just normal for meteorologists.  But what is especially funny about you and the many like you is that you demonstrate a fundamental disconnect with reality in that if you had thought it through you would realize that if what you were saying was true then we would be able to build ‘steam’ engines that run off the power of evaporation.

Why don’t you go start a company that manufactures engines that run on the power of evaporation. You’ll become a billionaire!

 

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