Response to Pat Obar

http://www.principia-scientific.org/arctic-explorers-or-buccaneers.html#comment-11224

PO:
Water vapor or (technical) steam especially superheated steam is the monomolecular gas phase of H20, nothing else!

Jim:
In common parlance the word vapor is used interchangeably to indicate steam or evaporate. Thus there is a lot of ambiguity in the word. I really don’t care what word is used, as long as it is consistent. If you want to convince the rest of the world that vapor equates to steam I will gladly follow along. Until then, however, I’m going to continue to consider it an evaporate/condensate.

PO:
Such “gas” has low molecular density but specific heat, twice that of gas N2 or O2!

Jim:
It depends, and IDK. I’m not sure how this is relevant.

PO:
Water condensate is the colloid between liquid or solid H2O and the gas phase.

Jim:
So, you’re proposing a new phase of water that is between gas and liquid–and that requires it be mixed in with air molecules? Wouldn’t it be less confusing (and not less accurate) to refer to it as liquid droplets/clusters that are suspended between air molecules (by electro-static forces [more on electro-static forces below])?

PO:
In the atmosphere this condensate is called an aerosol with a higher density than the gas, . . .

Jim:
Well, yes, if it contains liquid droplets/clusters rather than individual molecules of H2O (which is what meteorologists erroneously assume) then it would have to have a higher density than if it was 100% gas–according to gas laws (ie. Avogadro’s Law). And, consequently, it would have to have a higher WEIGHT PER VOLUME than does dry air. So, it can only have negative buoyancy. And, therefore, convection of moist air at ambient temps is impossible. It’s a myth. And it’s a myth that meteorologists refuse to abandon or even to discuss abandoning (The notion is sacred–it’s taboo–in some universities students have been failed or denied employment opportunities if they didn’t recant any statements they made disputing convection/latent heat.) because all of their models depend on its existence (Note: not all of their models involve convection. Some involve the equally ludicrous notion of “latent heat,” which also depends on the fictional existence of “cold steam.”)

PO:
but no one knows by how much, or why

Jim:
I suppose that’s true. And it is highly variable because the size of the droplets/clusters changes as they combine and/or re-separate with changes in pressure, temperature and static electricity (see below for more on static electricity).

PO:
And, no one knows why it remains suspended under the complex fluid dynamics of this compressible fluid called atmosphere, that is within a strong gravitational field.

Jim:
Speak for yourself. I know. What follows is an excerpt from my book entitled Vortex Phase: The Discovery of the Spin that Underlies the Twist: (See link below)
“Being heavier than dry air, moist air, therefore, is assumed to have negative buoyancy. This presents a conceptual challenge: if moist air is heavier and not lighter than dry air then how/why does it not just fall out of the atmosphere? My response is that moisture in our atmosphere is dictated by two processes (neither of which has anything to do with convection/buoyancy): 1) Electrostatic forces: air has a residual negative charge, water droplets have a residual positive charge, together these cause water droplets/clusters to remain suspended in air; and 2) As explained in the first paragraph of this chapter, the jet stream, in the context of creating storms, constantly pulls moist air up into its flow at the top of the troposphere 7 to 12 kilometers above us. Thunderstorms (which have nothing whatsoever to do with convection) are a particularly dramatic example of jet streams–acting as conduits of low pressure–growing down into the lower troposphere to create rapid uplift.”
Source: http://wp.me/p4JijN-aE

Have you ever noticed that atmospheric discharge of electricity (lightning) is highly correlated with rain? Why do you think that is?

More recently I’ve come to the conclusion that the origin of this atmospheric static electricity is, most likely, the solar winds. The northern lights, according to this theory, are visual evidence of this static electricity entering Earth’s atmosphere.

It’s good to see that you are smart enough and skeptical enough to not just take meteorologists word on this. They would have us believe that the only solution to this conundrum is to assume that evaporate is gaseous H2O (to produce buoyancy/convection/latent heat).

PO:
Please be extremely suspicious of anyone that claims they know, especially of yourself!  Anything visible is never steam, only the condensate!

Jim:
Steam is invisible. Always. Evaporate is also, usually, invisible. Evaporate only becomes visible when the diameter of it’s droplets/clusters are greater than the length of a photon.

It’s especially important to be aware that moisture that is invisible is not always gaseous H2O. In fact, most of the evaporate that is in Earth’s atmosphere is just as invisible as gaseous H2O.

PO:
The meteorologists can only lie, as they also have not a clue

Jim:
Don’t assume that all meteorologists believe this nonsense. They have to go along with it if they want to keep their jobs. The upper echelons in meteorology is not that different from that of the Mafia. Except they won’t kill you. They’ll just prevent you from becoming employed or getting research grants–more like the IPCC or Al Gore. And they are much better at suppressing debate and evading challenges from outside the discipline.